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	<title>Comments on: Dividing Lines: When politics comes between friends</title>
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	<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/</link>
	<description>The French Exception</description>
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		<title>By: Jack Penrose</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Penrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-339</guid>
		<description>Good post Hadleigh, 
 
It raises an interesting point - opinion is never fact, yet the majority of people try to impose these opinions on everyone else! 
 
In terms of religion, I am quite religious but not to a hugely radical extent as I too can see the point of existentialism. I am all for &quot;spreading the word of Jesus&quot;, that is fine, but there is a difference between spreading the word and forcefeeding it down my throat - I recall one man shouting in the middle of the Abbey that Jesus was &quot;going to burn my soul in eternal hell for my sins&quot; - all because I didn&#039;t take a leaflet from him! 
 
In terms of politics, it is the same idea, I have no problem with what people&#039;s views are, so long as they don&#039;t force them upon anyone else nor if their views cause harm to others. 
 
However between friends this black and white approach does not seem to work, I have some friends who vote Labour, some who vote Conservative - I have no problem with either, and holding a reasonable debate can often be thought-provoking and fun over an issue which polarises opinion. 
 
However it doesn&#039;t always end like that, often I have heard people slinging insults about the closests religion or political party to my views that in fact have nothing to do with what we are talking about. It all descends into chaos. 
 
While I don&#039;t have many close friends who have wholly extreme views in either discipline of politics, religion or football - if I did I think to agree to disagree is always the best option, friendship has to run deeper than a persons views on how the country should be run, or what faith they believe in or what team they support. At the end of the day, a true friend is someone who respects your views - no matter what they are. 
 
I am sorry for your ordeal with your friend, it sounds like a deep wound - but well done for standing up for what you believe in! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post Hadleigh, </p>
<p>It raises an interesting point &#8211; opinion is never fact, yet the majority of people try to impose these opinions on everyone else! </p>
<p>In terms of religion, I am quite religious but not to a hugely radical extent as I too can see the point of existentialism. I am all for &quot;spreading the word of Jesus&quot;, that is fine, but there is a difference between spreading the word and forcefeeding it down my throat &#8211; I recall one man shouting in the middle of the Abbey that Jesus was &quot;going to burn my soul in eternal hell for my sins&quot; &#8211; all because I didn&#039;t take a leaflet from him! </p>
<p>In terms of politics, it is the same idea, I have no problem with what people&#039;s views are, so long as they don&#039;t force them upon anyone else nor if their views cause harm to others. </p>
<p>However between friends this black and white approach does not seem to work, I have some friends who vote Labour, some who vote Conservative &#8211; I have no problem with either, and holding a reasonable debate can often be thought-provoking and fun over an issue which polarises opinion. </p>
<p>However it doesn&#039;t always end like that, often I have heard people slinging insults about the closests religion or political party to my views that in fact have nothing to do with what we are talking about. It all descends into chaos. </p>
<p>While I don&#039;t have many close friends who have wholly extreme views in either discipline of politics, religion or football &#8211; if I did I think to agree to disagree is always the best option, friendship has to run deeper than a persons views on how the country should be run, or what faith they believe in or what team they support. At the end of the day, a true friend is someone who respects your views &#8211; no matter what they are. </p>
<p>I am sorry for your ordeal with your friend, it sounds like a deep wound &#8211; but well done for standing up for what you believe in!</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 23:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-337</guid>
		<description>The question you pose towards the start of your post - why we find it easier to &#039;agree to disagree&#039; on religious questions than political ones - is quite interesting. 
 
Unlike politics, it is hard to imagine that the issues at stake in religious discussions (e.g. whether or not there is a God) might be resolvable through debate.  This might make us more inclined to agree to disagree, because it&#039;s not as if our dispute is likely to be settled in some empirical, verifiable way. 
 
This feels like the right answer, but (arguably) religious belief is more akin than political belief to a set of factual claims about the universe.  To be sure, both religious and political beliefs can address matters of fact, but it seems to me that religion tends to be more deeply rooted in factual claims (most notably, the claim that there is a God).  It is hard to characterize political belief in this way. 
 
If so, then this complicates the idea that we&#039;re less inclined to &#039;agree to disagree&#039; about politics because there&#039;s a higher chance of our disputes being settled in some empirical, verifiable way. 
 
As is no doubt clear, I haven&#039;t thought about this very deeply.....  but I do think that it&#039;s an interesting question. 
 
[NB: No offense is intended to anyone&#039;s religious or political beliefs...!] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question you pose towards the start of your post &#8211; why we find it easier to &#039;agree to disagree&#039; on religious questions than political ones &#8211; is quite interesting. </p>
<p>Unlike politics, it is hard to imagine that the issues at stake in religious discussions (e.g. whether or not there is a God) might be resolvable through debate.  This might make us more inclined to agree to disagree, because it&#039;s not as if our dispute is likely to be settled in some empirical, verifiable way. </p>
<p>This feels like the right answer, but (arguably) religious belief is more akin than political belief to a set of factual claims about the universe.  To be sure, both religious and political beliefs can address matters of fact, but it seems to me that religion tends to be more deeply rooted in factual claims (most notably, the claim that there is a God).  It is hard to characterize political belief in this way. </p>
<p>If so, then this complicates the idea that we&#039;re less inclined to &#039;agree to disagree&#039; about politics because there&#039;s a higher chance of our disputes being settled in some empirical, verifiable way. </p>
<p>As is no doubt clear, I haven&#039;t thought about this very deeply&#8230;..  but I do think that it&#039;s an interesting question. </p>
<p>[NB: No offense is intended to anyone&#039;s religious or political beliefs...!]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Coombes</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Coombes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-338</guid>
		<description>A very strong personal example of an interesting point.

While I know more about reinforced concrete than human motivations (architecture degree), I can contribute:

- for us atheists it&#039;s quite easy to agree to disagree because we have absolutely no afterlife at stake. The ‘wheel of reincarnation’ doesn’t threaten our ‘promised land’ because we have none. Recognising that the whole thing is improvable trivialises the issue, so we see no harm in other religions (so long as they don’t start interfering in politics).

- politics, on the other hand, I do take more seriously because it directly affects my life and those of others. For those who identify problems, causes and solutions these are very real. When, to accomplish these aims, we form political groupings with likeminded people this accentuates our differences.

- finally there is the nature of the people involved. Providing that they are doing it right, people of faith tend to be kind and generous individuals. Despite a few Old Testament differences, I am happily flat-sharing with a Christian; a Tory however...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very strong personal example of an interesting point.</p>
<p>While I know more about reinforced concrete than human motivations (architecture degree), I can contribute:</p>
<p>- for us atheists it&#8217;s quite easy to agree to disagree because we have absolutely no afterlife at stake. The ‘wheel of reincarnation’ doesn’t threaten our ‘promised land’ because we have none. Recognising that the whole thing is improvable trivialises the issue, so we see no harm in other religions (so long as they don’t start interfering in politics).</p>
<p>- politics, on the other hand, I do take more seriously because it directly affects my life and those of others. For those who identify problems, causes and solutions these are very real. When, to accomplish these aims, we form political groupings with likeminded people this accentuates our differences.</p>
<p>- finally there is the nature of the people involved. Providing that they are doing it right, people of faith tend to be kind and generous individuals. Despite a few Old Testament differences, I am happily flat-sharing with a Christian; a Tory however&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hadleigh Roberts</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadleigh Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-334</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul, 
 
I haven&#039;t seen it performed but I know plenty about it. &lt;em&gt;La Cantatrice Chauve&lt;/em&gt; is a favourite of mine too! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul, </p>
<p>I haven&#039;t seen it performed but I know plenty about it. <em>La Cantatrice Chauve</em> is a favourite of mine too!</p>
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		<title>By: Bryony Victoria King</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryony Victoria King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-336</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s disappointing, I&#039;m sorry you lost your friend when you were close for so long. I manage to get on with many friends with different political views but then again they have never got so extreme about it in a conversation or debate, generally just easy-going disagreement. Maybe in a few years he will see UKIP/BNP et al. for what they really are, his views will become more moderate and you&#039;ll get back in touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s disappointing, I&#8217;m sorry you lost your friend when you were close for so long. I manage to get on with many friends with different political views but then again they have never got so extreme about it in a conversation or debate, generally just easy-going disagreement. Maybe in a few years he will see UKIP/BNP et al. for what they really are, his views will become more moderate and you&#8217;ll get back in touch.</p>
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		<title>By: Hadleigh Roberts</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadleigh Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-335</guid>
		<description>I hope so. He&#039;ll know where to find me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope so. He&#8217;ll know where to find me.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Hadleigh... you&#039;re 20! If you were 50 your tale might have moved me to a poignant smile, at your age...it&#039;s pure tragedy! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hadleigh&#8230; you&#039;re 20! If you were 50 your tale might have moved me to a poignant smile, at your age&#8230;it&#039;s pure tragedy!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Evans</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Ever seen Rhinoceros by Eugène Ionesco?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_(play)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever seen Rhinoceros by Eugène Ionesco?</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_(play)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_(play)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Cain</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Cain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-331</guid>
		<description>Sad story, Hadleigh. And as a 20-something not in touch with any school friends, I admire your perseverance.

Ultimately I believe that politics (and probably religion) lie at the heart of a person. I can get on with someone I really disagree with but never be close friends with someone when I doubt their values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad story, Hadleigh. And as a 20-something not in touch with any school friends, I admire your perseverance.</p>
<p>Ultimately I believe that politics (and probably religion) lie at the heart of a person. I can get on with someone I really disagree with but never be close friends with someone when I doubt their values.</p>
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		<title>By: Labourhome &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dividing Lines: When Politics comes between friends</title>
		<link>http://hadleighroberts.com/2009/09/politics-between-friends/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Labourhome &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dividing Lines: When Politics comes between friends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hadleigh.eu/?p=1119#comment-330</guid>
		<description>[...] Full article: http://hadleigh.eu/2009/09/politics-between-friends/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Full article: <a href="http://hadleigh.eu/2009/09/politics-between-friends/" rel="nofollow">http://hadleigh.eu/2009/09/politics-between-friends/</a> [...]</p>
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